know, this incident that happened, he kicked him in the face, it was awful, it was, you know, excessive use of force. >> greta: and so, the training officer was a woman, and i'm just curious, did the arrestee ever testify at the hearing that the training officer did or did not kick him or hit him? >> well, he's schizophrenic and has dementia. they couldn't really get a solid answer out of him. i think, at one point, he said that he might have been kicked once, but he also said he hadn't been kicked. and the evidence showed he had been kicked. the only person who really, other than dorner said he'd been kicked was the arrestee's father, he said at one point the arrest-- >> and he wasn't there, but says the arrestee told him that, is that right?